Buncha Stuff

There has been lots of dialogue on the RU with LoA list, and I just decided I wanted to share my responses here, because there was so much good stuff in there. This was all written in the last couple days. I understand that it isn't going to make complete sense in some areas, because it is kind of in response to stuff someone was asking about, AND I think it will be okay, too :). The rest is my responses:
My son is new-3, and we have dealt with a lot of hitting. I am realizing, as I type this, that there are various kinds of hitting we have encountered. Some was because my son didn't have words and he was mad but not trying to intentionally hurt someone, in which case I tried lots of stuff waiting for him to get to a place where he could use his words instead. We tried helping him find and use some simple words, like "no" or "stop" or "mine" and then responding quickly and helpfully when he used them to show him they worked for meeting his needs. We also tried yelling "I'm mad!". And we tried hitting or biting a pillow or me palms. When he got older and was used to play fighting, if he got angry and hit I would say, "hey, I'm not ready to fight -- get me a sword first.". I always addresses the need underlying the action and eventually he got old enough to be comfortable using words instead of hitting -- I feel it really was maturity thing not something I had to teach him. We just used lots of different tools (words to empower, games to make it fun, etc.) to help give him options for expression and also to help him develop the maturity to understand hitting. Some ways we practiced these tools was through role-play, having his toys act these things out, telling stories about haracters who did these things, whatever way was fun for both of us :)
More recently, his baby sister (7 months old) has started to take his toys to play with them, or she will pull on him trying to stand or something. Sometimes this kind of thing makes him mad and he may hut or push her. I have found that often he is as upset as she is by this. He will curl into a ball and be sad. I comfort them both and might say to him, "You are sad that she is hurt, hah? She was taking your toy, wasn't she? What if we found some toys for her to play with so she won't want yours?" Or I will ask him what he thinks might help her not want his toys or whatever. He often has great suggestions. He may hit again, but I trust that he is building in his learning and feel he is so blessed to have someone keep his sense of feeling bad intact -- too often parents will berate a child or tell them they are wrong. My son knows what he did hurt and already feels bad about it -- I definately don't need to do that.

I feel like I was so in your place when I started researching unschooling, especially whole-life unschooling. I wanted to say that maybe Naomi isn't right for you at this time? Maybe something else would work better? Read Naomi when you get it and it makes you feel good, you know? Listen to your journey -- there is no path ahead of you to follow; you are making your own. (Hey, I like that!) What I'm trying to say is there is no prescribed reading list, no "other person's way" that will work for you (although bits and pieces from various people will feel so right!!). Do what feels right to you. For me, that meant rushing into this life, even though I kept hearing to take it slow. It felt so right to me, how could I do any different knowing it didn't feel right anymore? I wanted to be a certain distance in, and so I sprinted, and so it was right for me :). Once I consumed as much as I could at that pace, I started to slow down and have been chugging along ever since :). For me, radical unschooling wasn't a question of if it was right for us, but how do I let go of so much crap I was holding on to and do this? And then I learned the importance of funding my way. Unschooling is like every umbrella term: there are a lot of differences and you find which one works for you. The best thing about radical unschoolers is that usually they are so much more understanding and accepting of people's paths and differences (I mean, it's kind of the point of unschooling :).
I can soooooooooo understand how being a parent to your daughter is so different. I have worked with people with developmental disabilities for over 7 years (until my son was born and I have been a stay-at-home mama --yay!), and I have worked with families and group homes and classrooms, and I can so relate to the amazing and exciting contrast in what your parenting has been to what it is and can be now -- wow, your description was so easy for me to feel! The most important suggestion I can give is just make sure she knows how much you love her, because she will be better for it regardless of the details that may come, and because it will help you to make whatever choices you find to be best in each moment :). My mom did not parent me the way I find so important to do with my kids, but I knew she loved me and I could forgive and understand a lot <3

One of the beauties and the challenges of unschooling is that there is no manual to how to do it. Listen to yourself and keep looking for explanations that sound and feel right to you :)
Lots of love on your adventure,


Before I keep reading, I wanted to share something I have learned about interpretting tone via internet and also about reading suggestions.

First of all, when someone tells me about an incident, I draw from experience which may be very different than the typer's experience. Too often I have misjudged a situation because of my own ears and background, even when I KNOW the person is such a consciencious (sp?) parent.

The other thing I wanted to share is that I have always been a more-than-mainstream repsectful and creative solutions parent, and so when I read unschooling stuff about thus huge difference I needed to make, I was striving for something soooooooo big and not trusting where I had come from. Then I hit a place where I remembered and realized that my previous parenting wasn't THAT different and so striving for a HUGE change wasn't "needed" to attain respectful parenting and such. The funny thing is that I would get so stressed out trying to be the most respectful and feeling bad about myself, that I would get grouchy and ended up being more controlling and mean at times! So, once I understood that, really, I had already been on this path for a long time, that this was just a new chapter not a new book entirely, it was easier for me to see where my previous way and "current" way fit into all of this. I am sharing all of this because it sounds like you come from a very respectful and loving place already -- you sound like a wonderful mama!!!!!!! Did you hear that? Did you feel it? I hope so, because someone told me this and it made a difference: you obviously love your children, and you are here, aren't you (as in still moving toward trying to do even more)? Make sure and give yourself credit for all of the ways you are alread living the way you want to -- you can accept now and still change, too :). For me, being kind to myself made it much easier for me to be kind to my kids -- when I stopped trying to be perfect and allowed myself to be human, I was (well, am definately still working on this one lol) able to extend this to my children, too.
Some amazing sites I read were sandradodd.com and joyfullyrejoycing.com. I loved the movie Yes Man in understanding the power of saying yes :). I loved the concept of asking myself "why not?" for every request my daughter had or everything my son wanted to do (much younger so less words). I loved rethinking "should"s and "have to"s, to really understand why and who they were really all about (and remembering that each of them could probably be unpacked deeper and deeper and might mean something else later down the road). The Continuum Concept (and discussions I had with friends on it) helped me to really truly trust my kids' natural journeys and not want to push or accelorate (sp?) their learning.

In fact, I found myself questioning my preconceived notions about calming a child down, as I have been reading this chain of emails. Could trying to calm a child after an upset always be best for them? Why do we have such judgment of the feeling of anger and of letting out our upsets? Just like needing a good cry when I want one, maybe I need a good outburst when I need one? Maybe trying to channel it into something "acceptable" isn't the way to always go? Maybe it just needs to be released? Maybe stuffing it isn't beneficial for long-term understanding of feelings and expressing them? I dunno. Still new for me, so I have to work out the kinks, but figured I'd toss it out there anyway. I guess I trust that if my kid gets angry about something and wants to have a tantrum about it, maybe I can trust their own path and their life-learning and that they may need it in some way if it is what comes natural to them, rather than trying to show them a more "acceptable" way of handling themself or rushing feelings back to a place of comfort. Like I said, I dunno.

Another thing I did was an exercise I did for life and then extended it to this situation as it came up: I was viewing the world through the lens of love, seeing every interaction as an act of some kind of love -- love for self, love for a possession, love for silence, love for fun, whatever. Hmmmm, interesting to revisit that -- gonna play with it even more :). That helped, though, in being able to understand and accept my child's behavior that was one usually viewed negatively. Also, I will share again, that I recently heard a perspective that I really loved about anger having a root of fear -- fear of not being heard, of not having a need met, of being hurt, etc. When I can find the need being expressed and meet it, it often disipates the anger. I have found that applying this understanding to my kids' arguments helps me to understand how best to help them feel better and prevents future explosions since their needs are being met or they know I will help them make sure they will be (not as a way of avoiding or ignoring anger or things that cause anger, but there just not being any in areas there may have been).
I am really enjoying all this dialogue and opportunities to share and reflect and listen :)
 
I wanted to toss some more thoughts into the mix. I was thinking about what you were saying about how you feel A*** has shifted back to her usual self, and I was reading all this stuff about being polite/using manners. Wow, good stuff, as I, too, have been socially trained to the umpth degree and am trying to do differently with my kids. I think this is a great and useful discussion -- however, it seems to me that maybe what started it was something different than An*** using manners or not.
This is what I am thinking -- what if the "rudeness" A*** was displaying was a sign that there was some stuff going on inside of her, and your shift that has maybe brought you to be more connected with her shifted her insides to feel better? Can't remember the author, but on a website someone said something to the effect of how connected you are to your kids correlates positively to how cooperative they are -- note, cooperative is different from obediant, it is more of a happy partnership than just "doing what I'm told to do".
In the past, when my daughter was going through some stuff in life, it was so clearly displayed through her mood and actions. She was a conductor of her environment, and once I realized this, I could pinpoint the thing in her life, adjust it, and see the immediate change in her. In more mainstream families, the focus is on making the child stuff their output and it seems to make the conduit get clogged and results in kids who can be perfectly well-mannered but hurt and angry inside and usually not knowing how to fix it or even that something is really wrong. These are the kids that do _________ and people say they never saw it coming, etc. Anyway, with some kids, like mine, I haven't made my daughter stuff her feelings and behaviors, so she is reaaaaaaal :) I have always appreciated her authentic channeling and expressing of her stuff. When I have noticed she was "off", I might say, "Kass, you seem so upset [or insert emotion: frustrated, angry, whatever -- one that doesn't hold judgment of her, though, like I wouldn't say bossy lol], is something bothering you?" And she may or may not know what it is, but it may help her try to search inside herself, and she may pinpoint something (maybe it is something small that made her feel that way, but she may not know what the bigger thing is, so keep this in mind), and it may help her to find an outlet to bring on the tears or the rage or whatever she needs to release the stuff inside her. Sometimes, all I needed to do was shower her with love and affection and give her some time of having me all to herself (of course, often my daughter's problem was that I was a single parent, working full-time and going to school full-time, so this was what was wrong). Anyway, there are ways to find what may be bothering her, like observing her to see what stuff is really getting her upset and then finding patterns -- don't be afraid to dig deeper than the surface to find what's up.

I am pretty sure that you know this stuff, and I also know that sometimes it helps when someone reminds me of something I already know :)
I think the manners/politeness conversation we are having is amazingly applicable to the big picture of how to feel or not feel about kids using manners, but it seems like that wasn't really the issue with A*** that you were really concerned about. It sounds like the bigger concern for both of you was getting back into sync with happiness together and joy and all of those delicious things that make up our relationships with our children who we adore.
Hope this helps -- it seems to help me understand things more clearly :)
I am still finding the balance between valuing wanting my children to be authentic (not asking them or expecting them to use their manners) and understanding the nuances of how a happy joyful partnership may include these, too. I don't want to be anti-manners (lol), and I don't want to enforce them (and I know there are so many gray areas in the middle that I am learning about), so it feels like I am kinda de-schooling concerning them (like when parents new to unschooling don't know how to interact with their kids "correctly" on topics of learning -- learning to read, count, colors, etc., but it all slowly comes into focus) -- that is kind of where I am at with the manners thing. Like with de-schooling, since I am de-mannering, I am not telling my kids what to do as I unpack and explore my own social conditioning on the matter, embracing the acceptance of the opposite, and enjoying the authenticity that comes from my children in the form of manners and on the topics of them :). Mostly it is my almost-11 year old who talks with me about how she feels about using them. What is so wonderful is not feeling the need to help her make decisions about it -- she really can figure it out for herself!!!! It's so cool :). Ironically, my new-3 year old's manners almost put my social conditioning to shame, except he is really stepping into being demanding at times -- which may be the stuff Dayna and A******* having been sharing about this age :). Thankfully, I am okay with it in most areas and the ones that trigger me, I know they are about me and not about him. Some things I might say are, "Wow, you really want that cup, huh?", which kind of helps me to see his behavior for what I bigger-picture see it as, and maybe it helps him to understand how I am interpretting him, too -- I am less attached to what he "learns" from it, I just trust that it isn't hurting him but that it is helping me to help help him better so I say it :). It really grounds me in the present, in the moment, in his feelings, and less about me, because when he wants a drink, it really isn't about me. Having said that, if I feel that he might be angry that he can't do it himself (and that is why he is expressing himself so), I might find a way to help him to be able to do this himself -- like leave a cup down at his height and show him how to use the water dispenser. I am using the water as an example, but of course thus can be applied to anything.
Alright, I think that is all I have to say in this train of thought :). Of course, when I read my own posts later, I think of more :)

Me again :). Wow, I am really loving all this dialogue :). I am learning and revisiting so much on my own journey, and I hope it is helping others also! Lol
Okay, so, I was thinking of a couple things. First of all, I used to be very hurtful and resentful of the way my mom handled some thing, because I had experienced her handlig things differently before so I felt like she was capable of handling these things better. A friend (on this list) reminded me that sometimes we have lots of things in our library, but we aren't always capable of using some of them depending on the situation and curcumstances. It kind of goes back to trusting that our kids (and us) are always doing the best we can when and how we can. Expecting more doesn't always have to be about disrespecting them or being mean, but sometimes it can just be more than they can handle. I think that I do this to my kids because I do it to myself because people did it to me. Regardless of what was going on inside of me and around me, I am expected to handle every single thing at my optimal, and that is just not what feels best to my ME (yes, I said my me on purpose -- it felt right) at times. I have some issues with only accepting and feeling confident about the parts of me that are SO efficient, and I don't want to feel this way about myself or my kids or pass this on to them. It sounds like this may be your story or truth, too, as you balance such a huge responsibility of caring for your adult daughters who are so vulnerable to your care and now your new daughter, and it seems like you ar very hard on yourself for areas that you may "fall short". I can soooooooooo relate to this -- in fact, I may just be seeing this because that is SO my story and my truth; it may not be your's so much -- in which case, I appologize for projecting my stuff onto you lol

The other thing I wanted to share from my experience is that I cling to the good times and want them to be permanent, but my reality has been that life and learning is more like the ocean lapping at the shore -- it ebbs and flows, and I am learning to really appreciate both as contrast to each other, not good or bad, but different and both having a purpose. I can appreciate my child taking care of themselves and taking care of others (selfish or unselfish). Sometimes our kids (or us) learn one after getting their fill of the other, and sometimes they might toggle between the 2 (or more -- I know it isn't just black or white). As I am understanding this more and more as our days and life unfold, I am seeing more and learning to appreciate even the things that society may not value in my child/ren. I see it all as opportunities for them to learn -- and learning doesn't have to mean "doing everything right from day 1" or even "learning to do things right" -- kids can't help but learn, and when we broaden our understanding of how and what and why and when, we can feel more comfortable with things we were worried about, and understand and appreciate them even more :). I think it was you who mentioned child-initiated elimination communication, and it sounds like you have quite an amazing child in your midst -- maybe this learning to trust her and her journey is being child-initiated, too :). Maybe, again, I am speaking to myself, because I have a 7 month old who initiated EC, too :)
Life is good stuff :)